Still trying to understand these DSD UPnP issues

Issue description:

Hello again, as the title says, I’m still trying to get to the bottom of what these UPnP renders are doing different / incorrect that’s causing them to be unable to receive native DSD from Symfonium when using Naivdrome as the media server. I’ve attached logs from two different renderers: MPD and Neutron.

MPD works properly, this is the first one you fixed for me and it works great. Neutron, however, is for some reason not being sent the raw DSD file. Originally, I thought this was because the DSD content needed to be wrapped in PCM (DoP), but I’ve talked to someone on the support or development team over there and was told that Neutron should be able to accept DSD (.dsf file) natively via UPnP, and I was able to confirm this using the SMB provider via Symfonium. This is the same situation as UAPP (not included in these logs, however). UAPP and Neutron both are getting sent a PCM transcode (reports as 352KHz playback rate, and the logs show flac as the format being sent).

If I do not use Navidrome as a media provider, and use the SMB instead both of these apps do get DSD properly. BUT, what really confuses me is that MPD (the gentoo player renderer in the logs) does get DSD sent to it properly when using Naivdrome as the media provider.

I looked at the Navidrome logs as well, and I don’t see anything different between the two renderers. They both show the original format is dsf and transocde as “none.”

The only conclusion I can come to, at this point, is that something must be different between how MPD is interacting with Symfonium (reporting it’s capabilities or something) and how Neutron and UAPP are doing so.

Is there any insight you can provide as to what’s going on here? If we can figure that out, I can point the other developers to this thread and let them know what changes need to be made in order for this functionality to function properly.

At this point, I can stream DSD to my stereo via the MPD renderer, which is great, and I can play DSD locally on my DX180 if I use the SMB media provider, but that requires Symfonium proxy the file and uses more battery to do so (also makes the device rather warm). It would be super great if that wasn’t necessary and everything could be done through the one provider (Navidrome).

I just need to now what’s causing this behavior. I think by now, we’ve established that it’s probably an issue with these other apps rather than a bug in Symfonium, but you are definitely the best person to understand Symfonium’s logs; I don’t know how useful it would be to send them to the other developers, but that’s the only other option I can think of.

Thank you for taking the time to address this yet again. Let me know if you need any more information.

Logs:

Upload description: ben-dsd

Additional information:

 

 

Reproduction steps:

 

 

Media provider:

Subsonic

Screenshots:

     

Here is the portion of Navidrome’s log from when I was doing these experiments.

Sep 07 02:13:55 vm-debian navidrome[22710]: time="2025-09-07T02:13:55-04:00" level=info msg="Streaming file" artist="John McLaughlin; Al Di Meola; Paco De Lucia" bitRate=0 cached=false format=raw originalBitRate=5645 originalFormat=dsf requestId=vm-debian/mPTiN8vEDq-056024 title=Aspan transcoding=false user=ben
Sep 07 02:13:56 vm-debian navidrome[22710]: time="2025-09-07T02:13:56-04:00" level=info msg="Streaming file" artist="John McLaughlin; Al Di Meola; Paco De Lucia" bitRate=0 cached=false format=raw originalBitRate=5645 originalFormat=dsf requestId=vm-debian/mPTiN8vEDq-056025 title=Aspan transcoding=false user=ben
Sep 07 02:13:56 vm-debian navidrome[22710]: time="2025-09-07T02:13:56-04:00" level=info msg="Streaming file" artist="John McLaughlin; Al Di Meola; Paco De Lucia" bitRate=0 cached=false format=raw originalBitRate=5645 originalFormat=dsf requestId=vm-debian/mPTiN8vEDq-056026 title=Aspan transcoding=false user=ben
Sep 07 02:13:57 vm-debian navidrome[22710]: time="2025-09-07T02:13:57-04:00" level=info msg="Now Playing" artist="John McLaughlin; Al Di Meola; Paco De Lucia" player="Symfonium [Symfonium/Android]" position=0 requestId=vm-debian/mPTiN8vEDq-056030 title=Aspan user=ben
Sep 07 02:13:57 vm-debian navidrome[22710]: time="2025-09-07T02:13:57-04:00" level=info msg="Now Playing" artist="John McLaughlin; Al Di Meola; Paco De Lucia" player="Symfonium [Symfonium/Android]" position=0 requestId=vm-debian/mPTiN8vEDq-056029 title=Aspan user=ben
Sep 07 02:13:57 vm-debian navidrome[22710]: time="2025-09-07T02:13:57-04:00" level=info msg="Streaming file" artist="John McLaughlin; Al Di Meola; Paco De Lucia" bitRate=0 cached=false format=raw originalBitRate=5645 originalFormat=dsf requestId=vm-debian/mPTiN8vEDq-056031 title=Aspan transcoding=false user=ben
Sep 07 02:13:57 vm-debian navidrome[22710]: time="2025-09-07T02:13:57-04:00" level=info msg="Streaming file" artist="John McLaughlin; Al Di Meola; Paco De Lucia" bitRate=0 cached=false format=raw originalBitRate=5645 originalFormat=dsf requestId=vm-debian/mPTiN8vEDq-056032 title=Aspan transcoding=false user=ben
Sep 07 02:13:57 vm-debian navidrome[22710]: time="2025-09-07T02:13:57-04:00" level=info msg="Streaming file" artist="John McLaughlin; Al Di Meola; Paco De Lucia" bitRate=0 cached=false format=raw originalBitRate=5645 originalFormat=dsf requestId=vm-debian/mPTiN8vEDq-056033 title=Aspan transcoding=false user=ben
Sep 07 02:13:57 vm-debian navidrome[22710]: time="2025-09-07T02:13:57-04:00" level=info msg="Streaming file" artist="John McLaughlin; Al Di Meola; Paco De Lucia" bitRate=0 cached=false format=raw originalBitRate=5645 originalFormat=dsf requestId=vm-debian/mPTiN8vEDq-056034 title=Aspan transcoding=false user=ben
Sep 07 02:13:58 vm-debian navidrome[22710]: time="2025-09-07T02:13:58-04:00" level=info msg="Streaming file" artist="John McLaughlin; Al Di Meola; Paco De Lucia" bitRate=0 cached=false format=raw originalBitRate=5645 originalFormat=dsf requestId=vm-debian/mPTiN8vEDq-056036 title=Aspan transcoding=false user=ben
Sep 07 02:13:58 vm-debian navidrome[22710]: time="2025-09-07T02:13:58-04:00" level=info msg="Streaming file" artist="John McLaughlin; Al Di Meola; Paco De Lucia" bitRate=0 cached=false format=raw originalBitRate=5645 originalFormat=dsf requestId=vm-debian/mPTiN8vEDq-056037 title=Aspan transcoding=false user=ben
Sep 07 02:13:58 vm-debian navidrome[22710]: time="2025-09-07T02:13:58-04:00" level=info msg="Streaming file" artist="John McLaughlin; Al Di Meola; Paco De Lucia" bitRate=0 cached=false format=raw originalBitRate=5645 originalFormat=dsf requestId=vm-debian/mPTiN8vEDq-056038 title=Aspan transcoding=false user=ben
Sep 07 02:13:58 vm-debian navidrome[22710]: time="2025-09-07T02:13:58-04:00" level=info msg="Streaming file" artist="John McLaughlin; Al Di Meola; Paco De Lucia" bitRate=0 cached=false format=raw originalBitRate=5645 originalFormat=dsf requestId=vm-debian/mPTiN8vEDq-056039 title=Aspan transcoding=false user=ben
Sep 07 02:13:58 vm-debian navidrome[22710]: time="2025-09-07T02:13:58-04:00" level=info msg="Now Playing" artist="John McLaughlin; Al Di Meola; Paco De Lucia" player="Symfonium [Symfonium/Android]" position=0 requestId=vm-debian/mPTiN8vEDq-056040 title=Aspan user=ben
Sep 07 02:13:58 vm-debian navidrome[22710]: time="2025-09-07T02:13:58-04:00" level=info msg="Streaming file" artist="John McLaughlin; Al Di Meola; Paco De Lucia" bitRate=0 cached=false format=raw originalBitRate=5645 originalFormat=dsf requestId=vm-debian/mPTiN8vEDq-056041 title=Aspan transcoding=false user=ben
Sep 07 02:13:58 vm-debian navidrome[22710]: time="2025-09-07T02:13:58-04:00" level=info msg="Streaming file" artist="John McLaughlin; Al Di Meola; Paco De Lucia" bitRate=0 cached=false format=raw originalBitRate=5645 originalFormat=dsf requestId=vm-debian/mPTiN8vEDq-056042 title=Aspan transcoding=false user=ben
Sep 07 02:13:59 vm-debian navidrome[22710]: time="2025-09-07T02:13:59-04:00" level=info msg="Streaming file" artist="John McLaughlin; Al Di Meola; Paco De Lucia" bitRate=0 cached=false format=raw originalBitRate=5645 originalFormat=dsf requestId=vm-debian/mPTiN8vEDq-056043 title=Aspan transcoding=false user=ben
Sep 07 02:13:59 vm-debian navidrome[22710]: time="2025-09-07T02:13:59-04:00" level=info msg="Now Playing" artist="John McLaughlin; Al Di Meola; Paco De Lucia" player="Symfonium [Symfonium/Android]" position=0 requestId=vm-debian/mPTiN8vEDq-056044 title=Aspan user=ben
Sep 07 02:14:00 vm-debian navidrome[22710]: time="2025-09-07T02:14:00-04:00" level=info msg="Now Playing" artist="John McLaughlin; Al Di Meola; Paco De Lucia" player="Symfonium [Symfonium/Android]" position=0 requestId=vm-debian/mPTiN8vEDq-056045 title=Aspan user=ben
Sep 07 02:14:10 vm-debian navidrome[22710]: time="2025-09-07T02:14:10-04:00" level=info msg="Now Playing" artist="John McLaughlin; Al Di Meola; Paco De Lucia" player="Symfonium [Symfonium/Android]" position=0 requestId=vm-debian/mPTiN8vEDq-056047 title=Aspan user=ben
Sep 07 02:14:16 vm-debian navidrome[22710]: time="2025-09-07T02:14:16-04:00" level=info msg="Now Playing" artist="John McLaughlin; Al Di Meola; Paco De Lucia" player="Symfonium [Symfonium/Android]" position=0 requestId=vm-debian/mPTiN8vEDq-056051 title=Aspan user=ben
Sep 07 02:14:16 vm-debian navidrome[22710]: time="2025-09-07T02:14:16-04:00" level=info msg="Now Playing" artist="John McLaughlin; Al Di Meola; Paco De Lucia" player="Symfonium [Symfonium/Android]" position=0 requestId=vm-debian/mPTiN8vEDq-056050 title=Aspan user=ben
Sep 07 02:14:17 vm-debian navidrome[22710]: time="2025-09-07T02:14:17-04:00" level=info msg="Streaming file" artist="John McLaughlin; Al Di Meola; Paco De Lucia" bitRate=0 cached=false format=raw originalBitRate=5645 originalFormat=dsf requestId=vm-debian/mPTiN8vEDq-056052 title=Aspan transcoding=false user=ben
Sep 07 02:14:17 vm-debian navidrome[22710]: time="2025-09-07T02:14:17-04:00" level=info msg="Now Playing" artist="John McLaughlin; Al Di Meola; Paco De Lucia" player="Symfonium [Symfonium/Android]" position=0 requestId=vm-debian/mPTiN8vEDq-056054 title=Aspan user=ben
Sep 07 02:14:17 vm-debian navidrome[22710]: time="2025-09-07T02:14:17-04:00" level=info msg="Streaming file" artist="John McLaughlin; Al Di Meola; Paco De Lucia" bitRate=0 cached=false format=raw originalBitRate=5645 originalFormat=dsf requestId=vm-debian/mPTiN8vEDq-056055 title=Aspan transcoding=false user=ben
Sep 07 02:14:17 vm-debian navidrome[22710]: time="2025-09-07T02:14:17-04:00" level=info msg="Streaming file" artist="John McLaughlin; Al Di Meola; Paco De Lucia" bitRate=0 cached=false format=raw originalBitRate=5645 originalFormat=dsf requestId=vm-debian/mPTiN8vEDq-056056 title=Aspan transcoding=false user=ben
Sep 07 02:14:17 vm-debian navidrome[22710]: time="2025-09-07T02:14:17-04:00" level=info msg="Streaming file" artist="John McLaughlin; Al Di Meola; Paco De Lucia" bitRate=0 cached=false format=raw originalBitRate=5645 originalFormat=dsf requestId=vm-debian/mPTiN8vEDq-056057 title=Aspan transcoding=false user=ben
Sep 07 02:14:17 vm-debian navidrome[22710]: time="2025-09-07T02:14:17-04:00" level=info msg="Now Playing" artist="John McLaughlin; Al Di Meola; Paco De Lucia" player="Symfonium [Symfonium/Android]" position=0 requestId=vm-debian/mPTiN8vEDq-056058 title=Aspan user=ben
Sep 07 02:14:24 vm-debian navidrome[22710]: time="2025-09-07T02:14:24-04:00" level=info msg="Now Playing" artist="John McLaughlin; Al Di Meola; Paco De Lucia" player="Symfonium [Symfonium/Android]" position=0 requestId=vm-debian/mPTiN8vEDq-056059 title=Aspan user=ben
Sep 07 02:27:17 vm-debian navidrome[22710]: time="2025-09-07T02:27:17-04:00" level=info msg="Now Playing" artist="John McLaughlin; Al Di Meola; Paco De Lucia" player="Symfonium [Symfonium/Android]" position=0 requestId=vm-debian/mPTiN8vEDq-056120 title=Aspan user=ben
Sep 07 02:27:17 vm-debian navidrome[22710]: time="2025-09-07T02:27:17-04:00" level=info msg="Now Playing" artist="John McLaughlin; Al Di Meola; Paco De Lucia" player="Symfonium [Symfonium/Android]" position=0 requestId=vm-debian/mPTiN8vEDq-056121 title=Aspan user=ben
Sep 07 02:27:17 vm-debian navidrome[22710]: time="2025-09-07T02:27:17-04:00" level=info msg="Now Playing" artist="John McLaughlin; Al Di Meola; Paco De Lucia" player="Symfonium [Symfonium/Android]" position=0 requestId=vm-debian/mPTiN8vEDq-056122 title=Aspan user=ben
Sep 07 02:27:17 vm-debian navidrome[22710]: time="2025-09-07T02:27:17-04:00" level=info msg="Streaming file" artist="John McLaughlin; Al Di Meola; Paco De Lucia" bitRate=0 cached=false format=raw originalBitRate=5645 originalFormat=dsf requestId=vm-debian/mPTiN8vEDq-056124 title=Aspan transcoding=false user=ben
Sep 07 02:27:17 vm-debian navidrome[22710]: time="2025-09-07T02:27:17-04:00" level=info msg="Streaming file" artist="John McLaughlin; Al Di Meola; Paco De Lucia" bitRate=0 cached=false format=raw originalBitRate=5645 originalFormat=dsf requestId=vm-debian/mPTiN8vEDq-056125 title=Aspan transcoding=false user=ben
Sep 07 02:27:17 vm-debian navidrome[22710]: time="2025-09-07T02:27:17-04:00" level=info msg="Streaming file" artist="John McLaughlin; Al Di Meola; Paco De Lucia" bitRate=0 cached=false format=raw originalBitRate=5645 originalFormat=dsf requestId=vm-debian/mPTiN8vEDq-056126 title=Aspan transcoding=false user=ben
Sep 07 02:27:17 vm-debian navidrome[22710]: time="2025-09-07T02:27:17-04:00" level=info msg="Streaming file" artist="John McLaughlin; Al Di Meola; Paco De Lucia" bitRate=0 cached=false format=raw originalBitRate=5645 originalFormat=dsf requestId=vm-debian/mPTiN8vEDq-056127 title=Aspan transcoding=false user=ben
Sep 07 02:27:17 vm-debian navidrome[22710]: time="2025-09-07T02:27:17-04:00" level=info msg="Now Playing" artist="John McLaughlin; Al Di Meola; Paco De Lucia" player="Symfonium [Symfonium/Android]" position=0 requestId=vm-debian/mPTiN8vEDq-056128 title=Aspan user=ben
Sep 07 02:27:18 vm-debian navidrome[22710]: time="2025-09-07T02:27:18-04:00" level=info msg="Streaming file" artist="John McLaughlin; Al Di Meola; Paco De Lucia" bitRate=0 cached=false format=raw originalBitRate=5645 originalFormat=dsf requestId=vm-debian/mPTiN8vEDq-056129 title=Aspan transcoding=false user=ben
Sep 07 02:27:18 vm-debian navidrome[22710]: time="2025-09-07T02:27:18-04:00" level=info msg="Streaming file" artist="John McLaughlin; Al Di Meola; Paco De Lucia" bitRate=0 cached=false format=raw originalBitRate=5645 originalFormat=dsf requestId=vm-debian/mPTiN8vEDq-056130 title=Aspan transcoding=false user=ben
Sep 07 02:27:18 vm-debian navidrome[22710]: time="2025-09-07T02:27:18-04:00" level=info msg="Streaming file" artist="John McLaughlin; Al Di Meola; Paco De Lucia" bitRate=0 cached=false format=raw originalBitRate=5645 originalFormat=dsf requestId=vm-debian/mPTiN8vEDq-056131 title=Aspan transcoding=false user=ben
Sep 07 02:27:18 vm-debian navidrome[22710]: time="2025-09-07T02:27:18-04:00" level=info msg="Streaming file" artist="John McLaughlin; Al Di Meola; Paco De Lucia" bitRate=0 cached=false format=raw originalBitRate=5645 originalFormat=dsf requestId=vm-debian/mPTiN8vEDq-056132 title=Aspan transcoding=false user=ben
Sep 07 02:27:18 vm-debian navidrome[22710]: time="2025-09-07T02:27:18-04:00" level=info msg="Now Playing" artist="John McLaughlin; Al Di Meola; Paco De Lucia" player="Symfonium [Symfonium/Android]" position=0 requestId=vm-debian/mPTiN8vEDq-056133 title=Aspan user=ben
Sep 07 02:27:18 vm-debian navidrome[22710]: time="2025-09-07T02:27:18-04:00" level=info msg="Now Playing" artist="John McLaughlin; Al Di Meola; Paco De Lucia" player="Symfonium [Symfonium/Android]" position=0 requestId=vm-debian/mPTiN8vEDq-056134 title=Aspan user=ben
Sep 07 02:27:18 vm-debian navidrome[22710]: time="2025-09-07T02:27:18-04:00" level=info msg="Streaming file" artist="John McLaughlin; Al Di Meola; Paco De Lucia" bitRate=0 cached=false format=raw originalBitRate=5645 originalFormat=dsf requestId=vm-debian/mPTiN8vEDq-056135 title=Aspan transcoding=false user=ben
Sep 07 02:27:18 vm-debian navidrome[22710]: time="2025-09-07T02:27:18-04:00" level=info msg="Streaming file" artist="John McLaughlin; Al Di Meola; Paco De Lucia" bitRate=0 cached=false format=raw originalBitRate=5645 originalFormat=dsf requestId=vm-debian/mPTiN8vEDq-056136 title=Aspan transcoding=false user=ben
Sep 07 02:27:18 vm-debian navidrome[22710]: time="2025-09-07T02:27:18-04:00" level=info msg="Streaming file" artist="John McLaughlin; Al Di Meola; Paco De Lucia" bitRate=0 cached=false format=raw originalBitRate=5645 originalFormat=dsf requestId=vm-debian/mPTiN8vEDq-056137 title=Aspan transcoding=false user=ben
Sep 07 02:27:20 vm-debian navidrome[22710]: time="2025-09-07T02:27:20-04:00" level=info msg="Now Playing" artist="John McLaughlin; Al Di Meola; Paco De Lucia" player="Symfonium [Symfonium/Android]" position=0 requestId=vm-debian/mPTiN8vEDq-056138 title=Aspan user=ben
Sep 07 02:27:51 vm-debian navidrome[22710]: time="2025-09-07T02:27:51-04:00" level=info msg="Now Playing" artist="John McLaughlin; Al Di Meola; Paco De Lucia" player="Symfonium [Symfonium/Android]" position=0 requestId=vm-debian/mPTiN8vEDq-056142 title=Aspan user=ben
Sep 07 02:28:22 vm-debian navidrome[22710]: time="2025-09-07T02:28:22-04:00" level=info msg="Now Playing" artist="John McLaughlin; Al Di Meola; Paco De Lucia" player="Symfonium [Symfonium/Android]" position=0 requestId=vm-debian/mPTiN8vEDq-056144 title=Aspan user=ben
Sep 07 02:28:53 vm-debian navidrome[22710]: time="2025-09-07T02:28:53-04:00" level=info msg="Now Playing" artist="John McLaughlin; Al Di Meola; Paco De Lucia" player="Symfonium [Symfonium/Android]" position=0 requestId=vm-debian/mPTiN8vEDq-056148 title=Aspan user=ben
Sep 07 02:29:16 vm-debian navidrome[22710]: time="2025-09-07T02:29:16-04:00" level=info msg="Now Playing" artist="John McLaughlin; Al Di Meola; Paco De Lucia" player="Symfonium [Symfonium/Android]" position=0 requestId=vm-debian/mPTiN8vEDq-056150 title=Aspan user=ben
Sep 07 02:29:41 vm-debian navidrome[22710]: time="2025-09-07T02:29:41-04:00" level=info msg="Now Playing" artist="John McLaughlin; Al Di Meola; Paco De Lucia" player="Symfonium [Symfonium/Android]" position=0 requestId=vm-debian/mPTiN8vEDq-056157 title=Aspan user=ben
Sep 07 02:29:41 vm-debian navidrome[22710]: time="2025-09-07T02:29:41-04:00" level=info msg="Now Playing" artist="John McLaughlin; Al Di Meola; Paco De Lucia" player="Symfonium [Symfonium/Android]" position=0 requestId=vm-debian/mPTiN8vEDq-056158 title=Aspan user=ben
Sep 07 02:29:41 vm-debian navidrome[22710]: time="2025-09-07T02:29:41-04:00" level=info msg="Streaming file" artist="John McLaughlin; Al Di Meola; Paco De Lucia" bitRate=0 cached=false format=raw originalBitRate=5645 originalFormat=dsf requestId=vm-debian/mPTiN8vEDq-056159 title=Aspan transcoding=false user=ben
Sep 07 02:29:41 vm-debian navidrome[22710]: time="2025-09-07T02:29:41-04:00" level=info msg="Now Playing" artist="John McLaughlin; Al Di Meola; Paco De Lucia" player="Symfonium [Symfonium/Android]" position=0 requestId=vm-debian/mPTiN8vEDq-056161 title=Aspan user=ben
Sep 07 02:29:42 vm-debian navidrome[22710]: time="2025-09-07T02:29:42-04:00" level=info msg="Now Playing" artist="John McLaughlin; Al Di Meola; Paco De Lucia" player="Symfonium [Symfonium/Android]" position=0 requestId=vm-debian/mPTiN8vEDq-056162 title=Aspan user=ben
Sep 07 02:30:14 vm-debian navidrome[22710]: time="2025-09-07T02:30:14-04:00" level=info msg="Now Playing" artist="John McLaughlin; Al Di Meola; Paco De Lucia" player="Symfonium [Symfonium/Android]" position=0 requestId=vm-debian/mPTiN8vEDq-056165 title=Aspan user=ben
Sep 07 02:30:45 vm-debian navidrome[22710]: time="2025-09-07T02:30:45-04:00" level=info msg="Now Playing" artist="John McLaughlin; Al Di Meola; Paco De Lucia" player="Symfonium [Symfonium/Android]" position=0 requestId=vm-debian/mPTiN8vEDq-056168 title=Aspan user=ben
Sep 07 02:30:52 vm-debian navidrome[22710]: time="2025-09-07T02:30:52-04:00" level=info msg="Now Playing" artist="John McLaughlin; Al Di Meola; Paco De Lucia" player="Symfonium [Symfonium/Android]" position=0 requestId=vm-debian/mPTiN8vEDq-056170 title=Aspan user=ben
Sep 07 02:30:58 vm-debian navidrome[22710]: time="2025-09-07T02:30:58-04:00" level=info msg="Now Playing" artist="John McLaughlin; Al Di Meola; Paco De Lucia" player="Symfonium [Symfonium/Android]" position=0 requestId=vm-debian/mPTiN8vEDq-056173 title=Aspan user=ben
Sep 07 02:30:58 vm-debian navidrome[22710]: time="2025-09-07T02:30:58-04:00" level=info msg="Now Playing" artist="John McLaughlin; Al Di Meola; Paco De Lucia" player="Symfonium [Symfonium/Android]" position=0 requestId=vm-debian/mPTiN8vEDq-056174 title=Aspan user=ben
Sep 07 02:30:59 vm-debian navidrome[22710]: time="2025-09-07T02:30:59-04:00" level=info msg="Streaming file" artist="John McLaughlin; Al Di Meola; Paco De Lucia" bitRate=0 cached=false format=raw originalBitRate=5645 originalFormat=dsf requestId=vm-debian/mPTiN8vEDq-056175 title=Aspan transcoding=false user=ben
Sep 07 02:30:59 vm-debian navidrome[22710]: time="2025-09-07T02:30:59-04:00" level=info msg="Streaming file" artist="John McLaughlin; Al Di Meola; Paco De Lucia" bitRate=0 cached=false format=raw originalBitRate=5645 originalFormat=dsf requestId=vm-debian/mPTiN8vEDq-056176 title=Aspan transcoding=false user=ben
Sep 07 02:30:59 vm-debian navidrome[22710]: time="2025-09-07T02:30:59-04:00" level=info msg="Streaming file" artist="John McLaughlin; Al Di Meola; Paco De Lucia" bitRate=0 cached=false format=raw originalBitRate=5645 originalFormat=dsf requestId=vm-debian/mPTiN8vEDq-056177 title=Aspan transcoding=false user=ben
Sep 07 02:30:59 vm-debian navidrome[22710]: time="2025-09-07T02:30:59-04:00" level=info msg="Streaming file" artist="John McLaughlin; Al Di Meola; Paco De Lucia" bitRate=0 cached=false format=raw originalBitRate=5645 originalFormat=dsf requestId=vm-debian/mPTiN8vEDq-056178 title=Aspan transcoding=false user=ben
Sep 07 02:30:59 vm-debian navidrome[22710]: time="2025-09-07T02:30:59-04:00" level=info msg="Now Playing" artist="John McLaughlin; Al Di Meola; Paco De Lucia" player="Symfonium [Symfonium/Android]" position=0 requestId=vm-debian/mPTiN8vEDq-056179 title=Aspan user=ben
Sep 07 02:30:59 vm-debian navidrome[22710]: time="2025-09-07T02:30:59-04:00" level=info msg="Now Playing" artist="John McLaughlin; Al Di Meola; Paco De Lucia" player="Symfonium [Symfonium/Android]" position=0 requestId=vm-debian/mPTiN8vEDq-056181 title=Aspan user=ben
Sep 07 02:30:59 vm-debian navidrome[22710]: time="2025-09-07T02:30:59-04:00" level=info msg="Now Playing" artist="John McLaughlin; Al Di Meola; Paco De Lucia" player="Symfonium [Symfonium/Android]" position=0 requestId=vm-debian/mPTiN8vEDq-056182 title=Aspan user=ben
Sep 07 02:31:01 vm-debian navidrome[22710]: time="2025-09-07T02:31:01-04:00" level=info msg="Now Playing" artist="John McLaughlin; Al Di Meola; Paco De Lucia" player="Symfonium [Symfonium/Android]" position=0 requestId=vm-debian/mPTiN8vEDq-056183 title=Aspan user=ben
Sep 07 02:31:32 vm-debian navidrome[22710]: time="2025-09-07T02:31:32-04:00" level=info msg="Now Playing" artist="John McLaughlin; Al Di Meola; Paco De Lucia" player="Symfonium [Symfonium/Android]" position=0 requestId=vm-debian/mPTiN8vEDq-056186 title=Aspan user=ben
Sep 07 02:31:46 vm-debian navidrome[22710]: time="2025-09-07T02:31:46-04:00" level=info msg="Now Playing" artist="John McLaughlin; Al Di Meola; Paco De Lucia" player="Symfonium [Symfonium/Android]" position=0 requestId=vm-debian/mPTiN8vEDq-056189 title=Aspan user=ben

You are seriously time consuming :wink:

One renderer properly says it support DSD

2025-09-07 02:29:39.989 Verbose UPnPRenderer  Supported media type: http-get:*:audio/dsd:*
2025-09-07 02:29:39.990 Verbose UPnPRenderer  Supported media type: http-get:*:audio/x-dsd:*

The other dont.

I’ll pass that along. Thanks

This is what they sent back when I told them their app isnt properly announcing the capabilities. However, as we can both see, they are for some reason not being picked up in Symfonium / Symfonium logs.

Hi Ben,

I am using Intel’s DeviceSpy and Neutron → ConnectionManager → GetProtocolInfo gives all supported formats, including DFF and DSF:

http-get:*:audio/mp3:*,http-get:*:audio/x-mp3:*,http-get:*:audio/mpeg:*,http-get:*:audio/mpeg3:*,http-get:*:audio/x-ms-wma:*,http-get:*:audio/wma:*,http-get:*:audio/wav:*,http-get:*:audio/x-wav:*,http-get:*:audio/ogg:*,http-get:*:audio/x-ogg:*,http-get:*:application/octet-stream:*,http-get:*:audio/flac:*,http-get:*:audio/x-flac:*,http-get:*:audio/musepack:*,http-get:*:audio/x-musepack:*,http-get:*:audio/wavpack:*,http-get:*:audio/x-wavpack:*,http-get:*:audio/ape:*,http-get:*:audio/x-ape:*,http-get:*:audio/mp4:*,http-get:*:audio/m4a:*,http-get:*:audio/x-alac:*,http-get:*:audio/3gpp:*,http-get:*:audio/aiff:*,http-get:*:audio/x-aiff:*,http-get:*:audio/aif:*,http-get:*:audio/x-aif:*,http-get:*:audio/x-caf:*,http-get:*:audio/dsf:*,http-get:*:audio/x-dsf:*,http-get:*:audio/dff:*,http-get:*:audio/x-dff:*,http-get:*:audio/basic:*

I asked what implementation they’re using (mpd uses libupnp with great results), hopefully their answer will be more useful information :man_shrugging:

And as you can see there’s no DSD in that list :wink: So no for the moment I see clearly :wink:

While the other renderer properly returns:

http-get:*:audio/dsd:*
http-get:*:audio/x-dsd:*

They control what they expose.

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Thanks for your response I saw DSF in the list and figured that was sufficient but I will now return to them with this information thanks again

Good news! This will be fixed in their next update :partying_face:

oof, I was so hoping that we had reached the end of this saga…. however, that does not seem to be the case. I was given a development release of Neutron to try out, with the changes to the broadcasted capabilities. But the result is the same.

I’ve uploaded new logs (moredsd) with 3 playback attempts. The first two are with Navidrome as the media provider. First is to MPD, which works as expected. The second is to the development release of Navidrome, which exhibits the same behavior as before (reports 352KHz PCM playback), and the 3rd is with SMB as the media provider to Neutron, which properly plays the DSD.

What’s…. interesting…. is that looking at the stream sent from Navidrome to both MPD and Neutron they both contain format=flac, yet one works and one doesn’t. Navidrome, as in the log posted above, is ending “raw” data. When using SMB as the media provider, the address to the actual .dsf file is sent to Neutron.

Is the DSD data being wrapped in a flac container (as per our previous discussion where I was convinced that flac=pcm and you had said that is not the case)? Is MPD (or libupnp) looking at the actual data within the container, realizing it’s DSD and playing it properly, whereas Neutron may just be seeing .flac and treating it as PCM? If that’s the case, shouldn’t it produce noise, rather than the music? Is Symfonium in charge of this formatting, and if so, is there a benefit to using the flac formatting or would it make more sense to just send the .dsf file as is being done with the SMB media provider?

Or was the recommended change on Neutron’s part not implemented properly?

I shared the unsuccessful results of the test with the Neutron team, and am awaiting their response.
Thanks.

Also, UAPP behaves the same way (needing to use SMB to get it to play DSD rather than 352KHz PCM), I’ve just moved over to Neutron, because I cannot run UAPP without re-enabling google play services, and battery life is significantly better with gps disabled.

Now that LMS has been updated for trixie, it supports scanning DSD files. Now that I have another server to test with, I can report that the same behavior is exhibited with LMS and Navidrome as the server backends. Likely has something to do with subsonic in general, rather than the specific server running.

Finally got to the bottom of this with the Neutron devs. I now have a dev build that 100% works correctly with DSD over UPNP from Symfonium + Navidrome. I’m a happy camper now.